TRANSCRIPT – RADIO INTERVIEW – RADIO NATIONAL BREAKFAST
SALLY SARA: Well less than 24 hours after a snap National Cabinet meeting was held to address the recent spate of antisemitic attacks, the Federal Government received this dressing down from the Israeli Government.
[Excerpt]
SPEAKER: The attitude of the current Australian Government towards Israel is inflaming a lot of these emotions and are giving, I guess, some acceptance when you do not fight it. Words are not enough. We've passed that a long time ago. Words are not enough. The Jewish community needs actions and only through that, through deterrence, through investigation, prosecution, you have to fight it. I mean what are they waiting for? For someone to die? For someone to be murdered?
[End of excerpt]
SALLY SARA: That's Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister Sharren Haskel speaking to the ABC in Israel.
The snap National Cabinet meeting which was held late yesterday came only hours after a childcare centre in Sydney was set alight and spray‑painted with antisemitic graffiti.
Tony Burke is the Minister for Home Affairs and joins me now. Tony Burke, welcome back to Radio National Breakfast.
TONY BURKE: Hi Sally.
SALLY SARA: What's your response to those comments from the Deputy Foreign Minister of Israel?
TONY BURKE: Well I don't think we should ever accept any argument that says somehow what happens with a country's foreign affairs gives anyone a right to bring disputes in Australia and demean people and behave with bigotry in Australia.
So the absolute rejection of antisemitism is there, has been made clear consistently by this Government. We've had resolutions in the Parliament, we've had a series of actions. The concept that we're waiting is frankly wrong. You know, there were no laws against Nazi symbols and the Nazi salute in Australia. As this rise of antisemitism has happened we've changed the law.
There were not laws against doxxing. When there were complaints about doxxing being used allegedly as a form of antisemitism we brought in laws and we criminalised doxxing. The Opposition, I might add, voted against those laws.
We have legislation before the Parliament now against hate crimes. That's all well in advance of the actions of National Cabinet last night.
There have been visa cancellations that I've personally done. There have been people who have wanted to come to Australia on speaking tours where they have a history of antisemitism, and I have refused those visas. So, you know, with respect to those comments, the comment that this Government is somehow waiting is simply not right.
Australia never had an antisemitism envoy. We now have an antisemitism envoy, and I talk and work with Jillian Segal very closely.
The objection that Israel made when these sorts of claims were first made were some votes in the General Assembly where we voted with 157 ‑ more than 150 other countries, including the United Kingdom and Canada.
SALLY SARA: You've given us a list of some of the initiatives and steps that the Federal Government has taken and yet these attacks still keep on occurring. Is that evidence that what you're doing is not working?
TONY BURKE: I don't accept that. I mean I gave you the list because you played an audio of a Deputy Minister that we haven't acted so I went through a series of actions, because that claim is simply not right.
There is no doubt that we are dealing with one of the oldest forms of bigotry that there is, and the fight against antisemitism never stops.
Operation Avalite has started, you know, we've had the first arrest now, the first charges with respect to Operation Avalite. There will be more. Our police, both state and federal, know how seriously the Government is taking this. It is often a frustration that the public will feel understandably because you want arrests to happen very, very quickly. The police make sure that they are gathering information, they have their own operational processes and, you know, every time charges get laid there is nothing but welcoming from the Government on that.
And can I say for anyone who is engaging in these forms of bigotry and antisemitism, they need to know it is not simply, you know, the crime is not simply arson or graffiti. Hate crimes are of a different order absolutely. They have no place in Australia and these individuals will be caught and they will have the book thrown at them.
SALLY SARA: Minister, I'll draw you back to the premise of the previous question, and that is do you accept that what you're doing isn't working?
TONY BURKE: No. No, no.
SALLY SARA: But these attacks are still happening.
TONY BURKE: In terms of the premise of the question, we are dealing with some groups who believe they are above the law, and they will be charged, they will be caught, they will have the book thrown at them.
SALLY SARA: Will Australia be making a formal response to Israel in response to these remarks by Israel's Deputy Foreign Minister?
TONY BURKE: That'd be - I'd have to defer that to Penny Wong. As you know she's been in the United States for the inauguration. That's certainly not something in Home Affairs that I deal with.
SALLY SARA: Why did it take so long for the Federal Government to call a National Cabinet meeting on the issue of antisemitism?
TONY BURKE: The priority from the Government has been taking actions rather than having meetings. So the principal challenges that we've seen have been in New South Wales and Victoria. You would have seen there have been joint statements that have been made with those jurisdictions. There's a whole lot of cooperation and work that's happening across jurisdictions. It's the action that was the priority.
Ultimately the importance of what did happen yesterday at the meeting with respect to the register goes to a couple of things. The first thing with the register is it does provide an extra layer of cooperation between jurisdictions.
It also sends a message because at times like this, you know, we hear on the news, well I hear about more but certainly your listeners hear on the news about some of the most catastrophic examples of antisemitism where it forms into physical violence.
But bigotry starts way before that and it's the people being abused in a shopping centre, people being reluctant to go to parts of their city for fear of abuse, children being abused in their uniform or being abused for how they dress, somebody wondering in a job application as to whether they should use ‑whether they should slightly modify their first name.
These are the day-to-day issues with bigotry, and what can sometimes happen at moments like this is people get a sense of it's not worth reporting. When people know there is a register and the information's being shared, you don't get to that point of people not reporting. And I say to your listeners when forms of bigotry like this, in particular today we're talking about antisemitism, occur, please, please report. The more information we have the more effectively the authorities can deal with this.
SALLY SARA: Minister, yesterday the AFP Commissioner Kershaw says that they're acting on intelligence regarding possible foreign links of foreign actors possibly paying and directing Australian criminals to carry out some of these antisemitic attacks. Have you been personally briefed on that?
TONY BURKE: On that aspect of it, well look, I'm not going to go into what I get briefed on and what I don't because the nature of my portfolio makes that difficult.
Can I say this ‑I heard in the earlier interview, I was listening when you had Mr Paterson on ‑the call that was made to try to get more information here, my view on this is the Australian Federal Police will have very deliberate reasons for what they put out in the public and when they do it, and they operate independently, as they should, but my only interest in what they put out is that they make decisions that are designed to advance investigations and, you know, I'm not able to add to anything that's been put out there.
But I certainly would not join in what I thought was a surprising and potentially naive call from Mr Paterson when you are just randomly saying, ‘Oh, we need more information on this’. They should put out the information that they think helps with the investigation. That's how the Australian Federal Police should operate and how they do.
SALLY SARA: Do you believe that Australia's public position on Israel and some of the positions we've taken with the United States on the conflict in Gaza, has that emboldened any of the antisemitism here in Australia in your view?
TONY BURKE: I don't believe so. I don't believe so for a minute. I don't believe that the sorts of thugs that are engaging in this sort of behaviour are checking what's happening in the General Assembly of the United Nations when it meets in New York. This is a far ‑it is a much uglier crime than that.
I also just think we have to be ‑there is a principle that I think we need to hold to really carefully, which is conflict on the other side of the world should not change how Australians treat each other here. And regardless of positions that governments take on any Foreign Affairs issue, there is no justification for conflicts being brought home and changing how Australians treat each other. That is always wrong. And any argument that even leans in in the slightest way to say that those two things, there's a justification in them being linked, I'll never accept.
SALLY SARA: Minister, if some of the people who are carrying out these antisemitic attacks, if they feel strongly and they are not concerned about possible penalties for their actions, is it an option then to increase safety to increase protection for Jewish Australians and Jewish community organisations and sites as well, is that something you would consider?
TONY BURKE: Look, we've been doing that. Straight after October 7 we were concerned about the possibility of there being this sort of spike. We provided $25 million straight away, a further $32.5 million in security. That is all ‑ that was all the right thing to do and it's important to do.
But there's a rabbi who walked with me in the streets of Sydney late last year in one of the streets where there'd been one of these attacks, and he said to me that ‑Rabbi Rafi ‑he said he appreciated what was being done with all of that but ultimately he said he did not want to live behind a wall, and the answer here had to ultimately be ‑in bringing people together ‑the answer had to be in how Australians treat each other. We can't get to a situation where we just accept security is the only answer.
SALLY SARA: Minister, we'll need to leave it there. I appreciate your time, thank you.
TONY BURKE: Great, thanks for talking.